I think ww3 is a little extreame but a war is inevitable!

i dunno thats wots on the news.... but i totally agree that a war wud b devastating

war against who? they gotta know for 100% who did this first. till then, they cant react.

[ Message was monkeyed with by: Venus on 2001-10-29 14:34 ]

agreed; someone appears to have declared war on the states (and it's allies?) but until we know who, defence is going to be difficult.

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i think it is palenstine becuse they have withdrawn all there importantm ppl out of america why anyway dont quote me on this.....

its too soon to say who did it... how america will react... I just saw something scary. this guy who lives in my village (i used to respect him cuz he's really anti-rascism) came to this place we usually 'hang out'. he was all happy and laughing cuz he's pro-palestina... i mean, how can you be happy with these kind of tragedies? thousands of innocent victims? whats so funny?

I doubt war in the old sense will occur but I grant you once fingers have been pointed and someone can be blamed America will strike. It has been said 4 US Battleships have been set sailing, not for anywhere but to make them less vunerable. I do also suspect they're there ready to be dispatched.

People in Palestine are pleased today because the country that helped Israel take Palestine and that sent missiles to hit them are finally on the recieving of a destructive force themselves.

I don't know what else I can say about this situation because I can't. I've seen TV pictures of people jumping out of the WTC either trying to save themselves or to make sure they do not die in agony. They probably though it'd be better to die instantly than to suffer the fear, terror and agony of being inside the building when it collapsed.

Today is a dark day in history and as Scradge says people will finally realise what lots of people (me included) have said for years. World peace will never happen, not just because people are selfish, but because war and conflict is human nature.

I don't believe in violence but it is at times like these when I question my stance. Frankly I would not mind seeing the terrorists who did this suffer for what they did but then is not doing that repeating what they have done? A question that has been raised many times before.

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Big Gorram Line of the Week

"Well… my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood."

1/4 mile high, 110 floors and 50,000 people in each building on any given day. They say there was 10,000 in each but no-one will know.

What they became...

[ Message was monkeyed with by: Giz on 2001-09-11 12:56 ]

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Big Gorram Line of the Week

"Well… my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood."

oh the humanity

Quote:

On 2001-09-11 12:45, Giz wrote: Frankly I would not mind seeing the terrorists who did this suffer for what they did but then is not doing that repeating what they have done? A question that has been raised many times before.

My answer is yes. By becoming a murderer ourselves we merely make martyrs of the terrorists (whoever they are) and lend dignity to their own actions.



But let's underline a point: we don't know who did this. The combined might of the western intelligence agencies, who focus most of their attention on the middle east these days, didn't predict this (although they have had warnings before, about the embassy bombings for example). Today's actions are entirely unprecedented; they bear no comparison to any terrorist act that has gone before, either in substance or style. It's easy to point fingers, but totally without meaning until somebody has something to go on.

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The twin towers were on of my favorate building due to the architecture involved in them!

The loss of life will scar the american public for generations but i fear the people will be forgotten ans meany people are! some people in america are so ignorant thet they dont even know that WW2 happend!

it's a quirk of the way that people deal with tragedy that all of those people- 10000, 20000, however many- will forever be just a number to almost everybody. We don't know who they were and we don't really want to know, they're a statistic to be filed away. The twin towers on the other hand.. we knew them.. they can't be so easily forgotten, and we'll miss them, and find it incredible that they could be gone..

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Death is too good for the people/organisation who did this, i mean why should they get to check out without suffering like the people involved, i hope they suffer a million times more than those people today! and not get to die quickly at all. these people are not humane, they are animals and should be caged up and treat like wild animals (given a good beating too i say!) and i'm sure the leaders of american will never rest until it is solved.

I would just like to say that I would commend the designer of the World Trade Centre. Not only did it survive the initial impact of the two jets but they remaind standing for at least 1hr. This allowed at least some people to evacuate themselves from the lower levers and maybe some from above the impact area.



I do not know many buildings which could've stayed standing so long. Building experts say it was because the buildings weight was supported on the outside therefore despite their being holes in the structure the was a lot still remaining to take the weight. What made the building collapse was the fire that came after the impact. The high octane fuel on the jets burned and increaed the temperature inside greatly; melting floors and supports. With the great weight of the floors above pressing down it was only a matter of time before they gave way.



Personally I believe that if it wasn't for the unusal design of the World Trade Center more lives would've been lost.

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Big Gorram Line of the Week

"Well… my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood."

I don't think retaliation would do anything for anyone as far as this is concerned. Yes, we need to find who did it and do something about them but to send missiles, as the Americans will almost certainly do, is not the answer and I think will just start a war. And because of all the allies, it would quite possibly turn into a 3rd World War... and the thought of that happening scares me a lot, thinking about all the nuclear weapons that exist these days.

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-the bouncy sleepy bar of chocolate

that was a lifechanging day for everyone i think and whoever it was is gonna pay seriously! they will die somewhere along the line if they dont get the death sentence then somone is bound to kill them some relative or sombody......

the point being missed is that if the organiser of all this is anything like as determined as the kamikaze pilots involved, they won't care what anyone does to them. they've made their point already. as far as they're concerned, they've probably already won the war.

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exactly...havent they got wot they wanted....wheva it be chaos all across the world......famousism(new word)...or just a response they have got it...

but the important thing is that life goes on, good will out, etc.



I hope they find whoever did this, and I hope that they show them and all of their supporters that what they have done is not only wrong, but has failed- the free world goes on.

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well they clame to be able to identify 40 out of 50 people who were responsible for this crime. but to show them they were wrong? I really dont think thats gonna happen. after all, you dont give your life for a cause you dont absolutely believe in. and they do have a point with their actions. its like Giz wrote:

Quote:

People in Palestine are pleased today because the country that helped Israel take Palestine and that sent missiles to hit them are finally on the recieving of a destructive force themselves.

so as far as the terrorists are concerned, their mission is fullfilled. And its worth dieing for. And their supporters will think the exact same thing.

anyway you look at it people are going to suffer some more, because america will not let things lie,(i can't say i would) but i do hope it is not the start of a major world confilct(especially when i've just got some time to myself!!!!) i felt for those who suffered to day during our 3min silence, i hope i don't have to do it again too soon!

agreed; the eye for an eye approach has been tried before, it doesn't work and it just makes victims of more innocent people. this is what i meant when i talked about showing them they were wrong; by showing them a proper, just, fair response and not resorting to the type indescriminate murder that the terrorists would use themselves, and expect "evil" america to use. the solution to all this, if there is one, has to be partly political and has to address the problems with us foreign policy that led up tho this.. but i'm not saying that's going to be easy..

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i`m not saying that this is bad but as soon as america retaliate so are the enemy then we sorta got a conflict

Once America retaliates, we will have a war on our hands. And because NATO have said they will stand by America, as allies, there will be a lot of people involved.

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-the bouncy sleepy bar of chocolate

Tim's right tho.. this is going to be heavily political, addressing the conflicts that caused the attack. i dont think it's going to be as 'warlike' as a lot of people are expecting. that's not great comfort, and it wont be easy, but it's something.

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i don't care no i wouldn't dare to fix the twist in you (Sick Puppies : All The Same)

We just discussed this in my contemporary studies class and I'd just like to mention a few things that we discussed...



First of we wondered whether an act of terrorism (which this is) can be classed as an act of word. We found that by definition it cannot. Terrorism, is an act of force by a group of people. An act of war, however, is an act of force by a nation state. Therefore what happened on Tuesday cannot, by definition, be classed as an act of war. If you could then we could simply say England has been at war with Northern Ireland since 'The Troubles' began. As we all know this is not true, but it seems to me that America is using its political dominance on the world in this case.



Ok so onto the aforementioned political dominance. The first people to mention that this act of terrorism was infact an act of war was by the American Secretary of State (not sure but it was some high ranking official). Then Britain joined that view, then other nation states also coined this opinion. It seems to me, and most people in my class, that there are few countries willing to say "no" to the view of this being an act of war. Following the previous point of terrisim by definition not bein an act of war then how is this case different? Ok lots of lives were lost and the emotional aspect means people want revenge, want to vent anger but objectively this is not war. It is another page in the history of terrorism.



A final point I'd like to make is that it seems America, some time soon, will probably end up bombing Afghanistan and try to 'smoke out' Osama bin Laden even tho we don't know who has done it... yet. I always felt that someone would pay and a country would be taken with it.



In summation I would like to bring to the fore my own views on this situation since I haven't really made them clear. Yes Tuesdays events was very disturbing and something must be done and the people who done this should be delt with. However, this cannot be classed as war. Instead I believe this was showing America that it is not free from terrorism in the most severe cases and I think that this realisation has startled America into re-thinking it's views on extremists. May I remind you all that many Americans are sympathetic to the IRA and have been funding their actions for many years since they saw the IRA as people 'fighting for their liberty.' Using this notion then the middle-east is try to fight for their liberty from what they percieve as western intervention seeing America as the leaders. In no-way do I condone the actions but I think the press has been bypassing the real issues here. If we are going to fight terrorism it should be done on more of a covert way, using special forces instead of bombing a country (tho I don't much agree with that either, I don't like real-life violence anways). My deepest sympathy and condolences are with America right now but I don't like what America intend to do...



Ok now you all can shoot my statement down since I guess a lot of you probably disagree but I thought I'd let you all know.

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Big Gorram Line of the Week

"Well… my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood."

i could agree with that.. then i could disagree with it too, cause then i would be in two minds and i'm not, but then who said i wasn't? it wasn't me so i can be happy in the knowledge that i am not the one responsible this time, thank your for your support and co-operation in this matter.. er... whatever that may be.. thank you...and goodnight!

giz, i think i know what you're saying but i think at the moment what is happening is impossible to label. it might very well be a war; certainly the act involved and the ramifications of it, are on a much bigger scale to anything we previously knew as terrorism.



was it an act of war? i don't know. but is that relevant when bush and his allies have since declared war themselves? battlelines are being drawn as we speak; afghanistan appears to be resisting any handover of bin laden, pakistan is splitting down the middle trying to ally itself with the us while many of it's people would rather support the taleban.. egypt is doubtful.. this to me is the stuff of wars.



i don't honestly know whether bin laden was behind this. it seems likely, but i don't know, and neither do the governments right now. the way things are going though, i don't think that's really going to matter much in the end.

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I don't honestly think it matters whether it was an act of terrorism or an act of war, America see it as an act of war and will retaliate accordingly unless bin Laden is handed over, a decision that the Afghanistan government appears not to want to make.



I do agree with Giz that bombing people is not the way to go, as far too many innocent people would be hurt. But I think that President Bush is so outraged at this attack that he will not worry about that in making his decisions.

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-the bouncy sleepy bar of chocolate

and lets not forget that America are prepared, as the people apparently voted, to lose more lives in the retaliation against the emeny (whoever it actually is or not is up to them i suppose) and when people feel that way then i'm glad i'm not on the front line..